Many thanks for the fresh offer which i hadn’t seen prior to
I’m not sure if you had entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or not, whilst is authored since a research having Us americans which have colonial ancestors from Plantagenet lineage. He gives as one of their proofs you to definitely Joanna are the new mother away from Gwladus Ddu the fact Llewelyn gave new characteristics from Knighton and you can Norton castles within the Shropshire to Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and you will Gwladus was in fact married. It would was in fact illegal to possess Llewelyn supply Joanna’s assets so you’re able to an illegitimate daughter (otherwise individual that wasn’t a child away from Joanna). The services from Norton and you will Knighton stayed regarding the Mortimer nearest and dearest after that. The new quote was, “That when this new King promote Home to a person with a good woman out of their kindred from inside the honest relationship, and woman dyeth rather than question, the man from the Kings situation will not wait to possess their existence, because the lady caused the brand new gift.” Simply put, the latest features will have reverted back to the brand new crown just before they could have been supplied to a child who was perhaps not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I didn’t get access to the fresh new Plantaganet Ancestry by the Doug Richardson, but did gain access to the countless talks involving your and you may his concepts along with other genealogists (particular to own him, but some along with facing). I believe, once i manufactured in my personal early in the day paper, you to definitely exactly what swings it for my situation(Joanna being the mother off Gwladus), ‘s the import of qualities you mention in order to Ralph de- Mortimer up on his ed two of their youngsters ‘John’ and you can ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose in the event that Gwladus was the latest ded their own students thus. Despite the objections within eminent genealogists We speak about significantly more than, there was a standard consensus one Gwladus Ddu is relatively identified as brand new child off Llywelyn ab Iorwerth by Joanna, child (subsequently legitimised) regarding John, Queen of England. Allow me to capture that it possible opportunity to agree with Sharon (from inside the a contact for me) one Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian is of the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and therefore being bloodstream sis to Gruffudd. I foot which partly on today’s checklist utilized in ‘Regal and other Historic emails Illustrative of your own leadership of Henry 111,’ modified from the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. Toward pages 500-503 ‘s the transcript from exclusive page dated Marshall, Earl out-of Pembroke, in order to King Henry 111. Inside page, Marshall covers his siege of the castles out of Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy lists individuals he found in the palace O’Realy whenever they surrendered, it integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre mais aussi matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I’m informed that the implies that we have right here Gwenllian, daughter of Prince llywelyn, which seems to be entitled ‘sister from Gruffudd.’ As you https://kissbrides.com/web-stories/top-10-hot-medellin-women/ may know Gruffudd is the newest illegitimate child regarding Llywelyn, it is removed one ‘de- patre mais aussi matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd was basically complete bloodstream sibling and you may sis. Had Gwenllian started Joanna’s child hence King Henry’s relative, undoubtedly Marshall would have stated thereon truth? Which inability from de Lacy’s spouse because the king’s niece, was taken as near certain evidence you to Gwenllian was not the daughter of the king’s brother Joanna.
Such functions had been section of Joanna’s maritagium regarding their own dad Queen John
Ken: Thanks for that mention of Gwenllian. I’m definitely not a specialist genealogist, however, I really do a good amount of lookup on my own outlines. I believe some of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you will resentful of any other (about apparently method in certain of the things it blog post). You will find points that the audience is simply not browsing learn with certainty on the members of the fresh MA while they didn’t remain vital records for example i create now, so genealogists and you will historians need to use their utmost view for the sorting something aside. Indeed, public record information was a pretty “new” concept – of several says in the usa don’t remain records out-of births and you may fatalities before the early 1900’s. I belong to several lineage communities in which I have had to prove 11 otherwise 12 years, and you will trust me it is hard. Thus i most enjoy the problem from evaluating MA ancestors. (Together with sad thing is the fact that details that exist with the MA is actually of royalty and you can nobility – absolutely nothing whatsoever to the preferred somebody).
